Roby Issac is the Design Insights Leader at Mannington Commercial. In this episode, he shares his journey from a kid who loved to draw to finding his place in design through apprenticeship and taking risks. He talks candidly about cultural identity, assimilation, and how those experiences shaped the way he works and leads. Doug and Roby reflect on craftsmanship, longevity, and the responsibility that comes with making things that last. At its heart, this episode is about perseverance, gratitude, and finding meaning in the work.
Welcome to The Love What You Do podcast. I'm your host, Doug Shapiro. These are the conversations that open doors to what's possible when you love what you do.
Uh, I have some good warmup questions for you, Robbie? All right. These are gonna, these are gonna be the, uh, this, the warmups gonna loosen up. All right. Uh, your most memorable outfit. From, from being a kid.
Oh, from being a kid. That's easy, man. It was, uh, ninth grade. I was always like the, um, the odd kid in my family, but I embraced it.
So I remember gonna high school. I was like, all right, well, I got, oh, actually, lemme set this up, because I went to a, um, a private school when I was a kid, and so I had to wear uniforms all the time. So I was, I tried to be very expressive. So I remember going into high school and, um, we're, I forgot what they were called.
I think they were called. S-K-I-D-Z skids. They were these like baggy pants. They were black and white plaids. And I had these like fake doc marten boots because I couldn't afford Doc Martens. And I wore this um, t-shirt from a band called Fishbone and that was my first day in high school. Dang. Yeah. And I remember meeting one of my best buddies 'cause he is like, I like fishbone.
That is awesome. Like what? That's just such a perfect picture you painted. It was awesome. Yeah. Yeah. It was cool. That was my, that's absolutely. Wow.
Yeah. I love it. Um, all right, let's stay on that path. Okay. While you're in memory lane. Yeah. Uh, first album you bought
Ooh.
So it would've been a tape, was it fishbone?
It probably wasn't. Um. Gosh, the very first one. Oh man, that's a tough one. I can't, I can't remember. Um, I was ba back in the day, I was into a lot of, like, it was all kinds of music, RB hip hop. But then I got into like this phase where I was really into, um, metal and fishbone was like hard rock, kind of metal, whatever.
Um, so I can't remember what it was, but I'm, I remember buying a, um, a rush. That band Rush. Okay. A take that they put out like in the, in the late eighties or something like that. That might've been it. That's probably,
that's pretty good. Um, all right. This is one people struggled with. Okay. Career theme song.
Wow.
I think people were afraid to commit, you know, they were afraid to commit to one song.
Oh man. That is tough. Trying to think of what would embody that. Um, there's a, there's a Kid Cudi song? No, there's a loopy fiasco song. Okay. I just never remember the name of it, but it talks about just like how he got through things and pushed on through even, and it kind of reminds me of like just.
You know, challenges, it's, I mean, I think we all face challenges for myself. I feel like getting out on the other side, like, it's like my, it's, I have on my phone, like workout songs, like a playlist. That's the only song on there are serious. Play it on repeat playlist. Yeah. It inspires me up, man. Yeah, I love it.
I love
it. Um, all right, awesome. Well, let's, uh, let's, let's get into it. So a second. Robbie? Yes sir. , Welcome to The Love What You Do podcast.
Uh, Robbie Isaacs, VP of Design for Mannington Commercial. Thanks, Doug. Happy you're here. Me too. Um, I know we've kind of curated some topics for today. Um. Culture is a big part of that. Identity is a big part of that. Um, and also maybe some of what's inspired you and to get to this point in your career. So let's just start at the beginning.
Yeah. Okay. Um, you were a kid at some point, had no idea what design was, had no idea what the textile industry or the flooring is. You didn't know it existed. Um, at what point did that change?
W man on a big one. Yeah. First one is a big question. Okay. So, uh, I knew when I was a kid, I knew that I liked to draw.
That's all I knew. I just liked being creative. I didn't know that it was being creative. I just liked to draw. I don't know. I don't know what made me want to do that. Except that I think I was just trying to pass time. Um, you know, I might have talked about this, but like I was in front of the TV for hours and I'd have paper or like a notebook or something like that and I would just draw things.
Um, I still like just doodle. I think it's like. Part of my nature just to kind of scribble and whatever. But I remember drawing, um, all the time and being in front of the TV all the time. Um, what was on the tv? Oh, gosh. Reruns. Okay. I mean, I watched everything from like Gomer pile to three's company. Um, I think that that actually was part of my, uh, growing up process.
'cause I, I was born in India. And, um, we moved to Philadelphia when I was four years old. And so I think I just kind of learning. I, I don't think I, I didn't know I was learning, but I was learning through pop culture of reruns. Yeah. Um, and so I would just pastime through that. And I remember my aunt, I, my aunt saw something that I was drawing one day and she said something about.
Hey, you know, that's a, that's a really good drawing or something that like that. And I remember that being a pivotal moment where I thought, wow, that somebody complimented me on something that I didn't even think, you know, uh, think about. I was just doing it. So I feel like that's maybe where it started at a very young age.
Just like sort of this, uh, confidence boost maybe, you know? Okay. Yeah. I mean, is that like too y too early? Like that's probably like the first time. Like you
recognized something in yourself, right?
Yeah. Yeah. And I like doing it. So I mean, and then throughout grade school I would, you know, do the same thing.
I would doodle in class or whatever, found friends that had very similar interests. Um, remember elementary school, I had a bunch of buddies. We would just like exchange drawings. I mean, we'd just like come up with something and exchange drawings or whatever. But it wasn't until high school. Um, that I, I thought maybe there's something that I'd want to do with it, like, you know, long term or future, not that you're really thinking about the future in high school, but I thought maybe there's something there.
I was in, um, I took a, an electives class called Video Graphics, and I remember this, um, this teacher, Ms. Barbara Mayman, she, um, I love how you remember her name. That's awesome. Oh, I mean, these people are important, right? In your, in my life. And so. I can't forget them, but I remember, uh, it was the video graphics at that time was when you had the big old camp orders you put on your shoulder.
And so we had a class, we, one of the classes was doing stop motion and remember coming out of that class and she said that there was an opportunity for an apprenticeship in, um, a studio, an art studio in downtown Philadelphia, center City, Philadelphia. And she asked if anybody was interested. And I remember being the only person that raised my hand said, I'm, you know, I'm curious.
I, I wanna know what that means. I dunno what apprenticeship is, but I'm curious. Curious. Yeah. So that's, that was like the sort of the first step into like the world of art and design, like for.
I mean, this kid with the baggy checkered pants, you know, and the, and the Fishbone T-shirt. Yeah.
Yeah, exactly. You know,
uh, I can imagine how that
conversation, you know, how she picked you out, you know?
Yeah, yeah. It was, it was great. I mean, I don't know, man. Sometimes I just feel like I'm in the right place at the right time. Yeah. You know, and yeah. Um, I, you gotta seize the opportunity. I didn't realize it was an opportunity. I know now, looking back, that these were opportunities and like I just stepped in, you know, and I was just curious, you know, but, um, I, I, what would
like, okay.
That was that opportunity back then. Yeah. Like you've progressed in your life, in your career. Like what would an opportunity like that look like today for you? In what sense? Like, like a big learning moment. Like, uh, do, do you wonder, like do those, are those harder to find as you get older? Do we, are they harder to find because like we know too much?
Or is it harder to find because, uh, yeah, you know, you stopped searching for that, or I, I just wonder.
Yeah. I think it's. I think it's harder to find because we're so consumed with our daily to-do stuff, you know, our to-do list at home, at work, you know, our responsibilities, you know, in leadership roles, all that stuff.
I think we don't have the space to, to explore those curiosities as much, you know? You know, when you're a kid or when I was a kid in high school, like it was either that or it's in front of the TV and draw, you know, but. I think for me, um, I try to be intentional about just, you know, keeping my eyes open.
You know, if I'm, if I'm traveling intentionally to look for something, I try to just stay, like in the moment. Very curious. Or, um, if I'm not, if I'm traveling without, like, a purpose for inspiration or whatever, I still try to, I mean, I, I think it's in innate like we are. You know, designers, we we're, we're just like drawn to understanding things and, and figuring out why the whys Yeah.
About it all, you know. So I don't know if there's necessarily those type of specific opportunities. So I try to find it through other things, just kind of being open. You still doodle all the time. Did you bring some, um, it's in my bag at the hotel. You should go get your doodles. I should. Yeah.
Seriously.
If you have something,
uh, at the, at the hotel. Oh, it's at the hotel. It's at the hotel, yeah. Dang it. Yeah.
Yeah. I doodle all the time. Well, maybe we'll flash some up on the screen. Just send me some photos. I will, yeah, absolutely. Yeah. All right. That's cool. Um, all right, let's, let's, let's get into identity and culture.
Okay. I know this has been a journey for you, right? Yeah. In sort of being introspective, um, understanding you, your history. Um, where are you in that journey?
In the middle. Okay. In the middle. Yeah. I think, um, you know, it was a conversation that you and I had years ago. We were just chatting about something and you, we were talking about culture, specifically.
My background, um, being in, being Indian and you asked, well, how does it get brought into what I do, whether it's for work or personal creative stuff, and, um. I was like, man, I, I don't know. I don't know if I do. And it was a, it's probably a heavy moment. It was, it was. Because again, I think we operate well. I operate with like, there's a, there's a goal in mind, there's a goal in mind.
So I gotta approach that. I don't necessarily think like, okay, I'm gonna bring sort of cultural identity into it. And I mean, to get a little bit deeper, you know, growing up in the eighties, um, and nineties. As a kid that was from another country I, I knew, or at least I believed I needed to assimilate.
Right. So that's a, I mean, that was a tough, like a tough thing to kind of manage. Right? So, you know, living between two identities right. In the house. I was Indian. I was all Indian, right? Uh, and growing up in school in Philly, I was like, well, I gotta be, you know, Philly or American or whatever, you know. Um, so it was like this duality.
Um, I just kind of unknowingly worked through or lived through and so, you know, being in school, studying design and being in, you know, in our professional career, like, I kind of learned to say, all right, well, you know, my Indian piece, like a part of me that's Indian, like yeah. With my family and whatever, that understand it, that embrace it, like that's there and I was okay.
Not necessarily show, not, it's not that I wasn't showing it, it just didn't come up in like the professional realm, you know? Sure. But when you asked me that question, I was like, man, that's a, that's a heavy question that I need to unpack. So I, I don't know if I've gotten to a point where I can understand like what that means, but it's definitely been on my mind.
And that was probably about two years ago. So,
so there's, there's like it's more present in you. Yeah. Right. But yeah, like when you said you're in the middle of that journey. Yeah. I, I can see how even just the way you're speaking of it, it's like you're still working through like, well, how does it show up?
Yeah. You know, and,
uh, I had a, um, interesting kind of moment just about a month ago, um, went to Mexico City. Um, a colleague of mine and I were there for sort of a design research trip. And we had a chance to visit Kaza, osu, um, Frida Kao's home and studio. And, you know, she's one of my heroes, um, just in life, you know, beyond just art, but like the, the life that she lived.
And, um, you know, she had a tragic life in a lot of ways, but she brought so much beauty into the world that we can all appreciate, right. But, uh, you know, there's so much within that house and studio that talked about. Like identity. And as we were walking through Mexico City, I thought a lot about how, you know, they're unabashedly proud of their culture and heritage and in all parts.
Of their life, you know? And so I feel like there are these moments that keep popping up where I'm like, man, I gotta figure out how to like, bring that out more. You know? So I don't, yeah, I don't know where that goes, but, um, definitely been thinking about it for a real long time.
You know, it's, it's, um, you know, I wonder as you design products, spaces that are so.
Have to be such a chameleon in so many ways. 'cause like you, when you design a product, you really don't know where it's going. It's one thing to design a building. You know who's in it, you know, you know what its purpose is. Yeah. Sometimes when you design a product, it's like, well, I'm not really sure where it's going.
So it has to meet a variety of needs and Yeah. And uh, I wonder if just being constantly in that world. Kind of takes, you know, it's not art, it's not necessarily an individual expression. Right. In the same way.
Yeah. I mean, specifically for like the products that we design, that our team designs, you know, flooring, you're right, we don't know where it's gonna go.
We don't know what project it's gonna be on. So it's gotta be versatile. And, um, you know, there are moments where we can be statement products and we design with a lot of like, you know, punch to it. But a lot of times, you know, we're, um. We're like the supporting actor, you know, or actress or whatever. Uh, and, and that's fine.
You know, um, there are architectural elements that need to shine, you know, furniture plays a big part, textiles, whatever. So if it, if we're kind of like in the background supporting it all, that's, we're doing our job, right? Um, so in order to be versatile, you have to be a little bit of a chameleon sometimes, right?
Yeah. So, yeah. Um. What I try to encourage my team to do is in the beginning stages of development, like, you know, that's where like we have to put that creative punch, like get your, like the purely artistic side into it, because we can distill it to become that chameleon. But like in the beginning, like, you know, like be like the peacock, like let it shine and then we can like, manage it to be usable or whatever it is for the, for the client's project.
I love hearing that about your process. I mean, I just, uh, your, your thought process. 'cause, you know, beacon Furniture Yeah. Kinda always wonder like, well, how does the other side work? You know, how do you work through concepts and think Yeah.
Um, um, I, I, I think it's part like. I don't get to do as much like behind this screen designing any, as much as I'd like to anymore.
But that was like my favorite part, you know, kind of just starting very conceptually and doing, then kind of doing my own artwork to get to a stage where then we can start working collaboratively with the, you know, the business team or the marketing team or operations and getting it into a product that you know can be specified.
Um.
While we're on the subject of products, I know one of the things you hinted at that you were interested in getting into was the concept of longevity in products and the role that plays in sustainability. Yeah. I, I don't know if there's, if you want to go there, if there's some thinking Yeah, sure. New thinking you have on that.
Yeah. Um, you know, the, the topic of sustainability is such a complex one as you, you know, as you know, I mean, it is, there's, it's multifaceted and it, it's, it encompasses. The, the, you know, raw materials to, um, you know, supply chain, like where does it come from, right. Um, to how is it utilized at the end of life?
So one thing that we've been talking about at Maning commercial is this idea of longevity. You know, we try to build or develop products that can last for a really long time because if there aren't really good end of life solutions for products, unfortunately they go into landfills. If we can design well styled products that last for a really long time, you know, until better solutions are figured out, we, we can keep our products outta landfill when it's time to replace.
I think about this idea of craftsmanship, like as a big picture, big, big word, craftsmanship. You know, craftsman's, craftsman back in the day were thought to be the people that were highly skilled at making their goods right. Um. And they built them, like, you know, they built products that would last for generations.
I mean, you know, to hand down from one family member to another, they're like heirloom pieces. Right. And, uh, I guess like in our, you know, total world of disposable thinking, we don't, I don't know if we value that as much as we used to. Right. Um, now I, I don't know if people would think about that same way with flooring, but I think there's a place to have that conversation.
I, I remember this was a, this was another conversation we had, I think maybe at a industry round table of the past or something. You were telling me about an art piece that you had and how you didn't notice it or think about it very much until you started to clean it.
Oh, yeah.
And then when you started to clean this up, you were thinking about how that person.
Hand was in that same spot in deciding the curve and that really stuck with like, I remembered that conversation 'cause I was thinking like. Like, you know, wow. Like maybe sometimes we totally miss that on products, you know, as we miss thinking about the person who made it.
Yeah. Wow. I'm, I'm surprised you remember that.
I remember that. I was thinking whatcha talking about? Yeah, we have that, uh, we, uh, I just restored it and put it in the, in our house. So I look at it a lot. Um. It's interesting because it was this piece, uh, this steel piece or something like that, that was, um, by this, I guess, relatively well-known artist that would do these, you know, pieces.
It was like, I think it was like the fifties or sixties, the, the guy that was selling it said it was sitting in a, um, like somebody's front yard for like a decade or something. Gosh. So it was all rushed over or whatever. So I finished everything and he did the proper paint and all that on it, but I left his, um, he had a signature on this little piece, and I just left it as it was or whatever, because yeah, it was, I was like, man, this person put a lot of thought into this.
Not just the vision of making it, but all the, the work he, the physical work he put into it. But yeah, I mean, I mean everything, I mean, even with the furniture that JSI makes, I mean, there's a lot of. Thoughtful craftsmanship that's put into these, these objects. Right. And I don't know, um, yeah, it's countless, I
mean, standing back looking at it like, should we move that here?
You know, all of that.
Yeah. Yeah. I think that should be celebrated. I think that should be, you know, considered as
valuable. I think it's part of the longevity story, right? If you, if you, you're gonna bring something into the world that's gonna be here for that long mm-hmm. Like. It needs to be brought in with care.
Yeah, absolutely. Um, because who knows where it goes and who it affects, and we're all products of what we sit in and what we see every day. Yeah. It's all, I mean, we're all contributing.
Yeah. There's a, I read a book last year. Um, the meaning of the making, I think that's called or meaning in the making, but that's a little tag that we've been throwing around the studio.
There is meaning in the making because to your point, like we just don't wanna put an object or a product out there just because, you know, there's gotta be intentionality behind it and, and care.
Yeah.
Um,
all right, so we, we both had a similar experience. January we were here. Yeah. Right. We were here for a meeting.
Uh, the meeting kicked off with a magician.
Yes.
Right. Cheryl Durst, uh, made all this happen for us Right. At the IIDA industry Roundtable. Cheryl's kind of
like a magician too,
you know? She is a she is a magician. Yes. She's a lot of things. Yeah. Yeah. Um, that magician asked the question, what is your superpower?
I remember that. So, yes.
What, what was your answer? Uh. I had to think quickly, but it came quickly too. It, it, um, I said grit. I said, I believe grit is my superpower. Yeah.
Tell me how you got there.
Um, that's a man, you asked all these tough questions.
Well, 'cause I mean, like, I, I don't care how, I don't care what the answer was.
I care how you got there. Yeah.
Uh, I, I think it's too well. I wanna say it's two part, but I, I think one part influences the bigger thinking. Um, growing up in Philadelphia, you know, it's, uh, you know, it's kind of like a blue collar place, and we have celebrated the, the grit behind everything we do. It's a, you know, I think with most cities, like there's a lot of grit that you have to have too.
You know, power through whatever the situation might be. So I think at an early age I understood that whether it might be, would've been like family members working really hard or sports teams, disappointing sports teams or whatever it might, might be as a curse there. Um, so I think like, you know, as a, as an impressionable kid, I understood okay, like getting through things and just powering through is a big deal.
But I saw it personally. I saw it with my parents, you know, coming through. What did your parents do? Um, well, when they came from. When they moved from India, they had to, you know, leave their world of being comfortable and, um, their professions and start, like, start all over. And so, um, what they studied over there didn't translate over here, and they're a little bit older, so they didn't go back to school.
So they had to, you know, do a lot of, uh, odd jobs and whatever. And, um. And they just worked really hard, you know, and they never complained. And, you know, times, at times things seemed tough. They, we, we were shielded from that a little bit, but I knew that they were just working through things, you know, and as I got older, I understood better, and I knew that they powered through for, for, you know, us and for a better life.
And so as I got older and I moved from being like, you know, an idiot kid into somebody that needed to be more responsible, I was like, man, I, there's. Uh, there's a responsibility that I have, you know, that I have to own up to, like just putting my head down and working hard, you know, and sometimes I might want to complain, but, you know, if I understand the goal, I'll just push through.
You know, even, even now, like, you know, everything's not easy, but like, I know if I can push through on the other side, it's gonna be good.
I mean, there's a, there's a, I don't wanna say pressure, but I can't, you know, I'm sure there's a lot of weight involved and. Seeing, knowing the decision your parents made, um, I'm assuming they made it for you, right?
Yeah. And for if you had siblings, you know? Yeah. For
me and my brother and sister. Yeah.
And it's, um, it's like, well, what are you gonna do with that? Yeah. Yeah. And that's a, that's probably a, a feeling that you just inevitably have in your situation.
Yeah. I mean, they were great. They never said like, you know.
Don't disappoint us or, you know, f this up or anything like that. Right. Um, but I think the, I don't know, I just knew like it was the right thing to do because of the sacrifices they made.
So that was your foundation for grit, essentially? Yeah. Oh, absolutely. I mean, I feel that,
yeah,
absolutely. I totally feel that.
Um. Do you have, do you have another superpower? Do you have a superpower you wish you had? Like what? Like if you could do anything
that wasn't on the question list. No. Another superpower
like I thought, like do you want to be able to read minds? I don't know.
No, I don't think so. You don't want to? No. Mm-hmm. I don't think so. I like, I liked, uh, being curious. I like, I like engaging with people. You know, I've never taken, um, those like personality tests, like the disc and all that stuff.
Like, I, I, I purposely avoid those because I, and I don't know, maybe it's just 'cause I'm rebellious and by my, by nature, but like, um, when I was told about it years ago, when I was starting out, I was like, if I wanna know how to interact with people, I'll just talk to them. Like, get to learn, you know, who they are and what the what.
Because I think that I like human interaction and I like to converse with people and get to know people, whatever. And then, you know, like I talk to them like they wanna be talked to, whatever, you know. So I wouldn't want to know what you're thinking. I just like to get to talk to you.
Yeah. Yeah. I, I. I see.
It would be difficult, honestly, to probably know what people are thinking all the time. Yeah. What if you heard something? So let's rule that superpower out. Hmm. I dunno. Do you have one? What would be, uh, do I have one? I mean, like, I. This is, this is just because it feels like of the age. Yeah. Like I, you know, it would be really valuable to be like a master prompter at this point.
Prompter,
yeah. Like in what way?
Like getting people
to do stuff? No, like in a way of like, we're living in this AI world. Oh yeah. Feel like we're like, there's this mountain of. Possibility. Yeah. And the only thing, or this is a mountain of answers, the only thing that stands between like the answers we're seeking are the ability to ask the right questions.
Yeah. And so like if I had like the best question asking Yeah. Superpower like that would be a really cool, even if it wasn't for ai, but just. For other people. Yeah. Um, I've actually, I've been exploring this idea of questions. I actually feel like there's questions in general are so underrated. Hmm.
Because I, I've been in meetings where. Someone asks a question in the meeting, and now all of a sudden, everything changes. Hmm. Like the way we thought about whatever it is, we, we came together for changes because this person asked a question that made us all think differently. Yeah. And so I started seeing the questions as more important than the answers.
Um. I believe that and like even like, you know, us in the what? You know, when you're designing, when you're, and I just feel like we don't spend a lot of time getting great at questions. Yeah. We're not raised to, I mean, if you look at our education Yeah. Right. Like. No one's like, who here has a great question?
You know, instead you get asked a question. Yeah. You're expected to answer it. Um, I had, I would love to ask, actually, my kids we're all in school. Your kids too. Yeah. You know, like, does the teacher ever ask you on a test for questions? Yeah.
Right. Never. You know, and so
I just wonder about that and I feel like, I feel like we're missing something.
You know, I, I don't know if it relates exactly that, but what you said earlier about ai. I think if I could choose a superpower, I'd like to be able to process things faster. I think because I've, I always, I'm so inquisitive about things, I take a long time to think through things, so my responses take a long time sometimes.
Um, and I, I hear that from like friends and family, people at work, like I'm just processing, like, so there's a lot of times where I'm quiet, but I wish I could process things because things are moving so fast. I'd, I'd love to be able to hear things, whether it's like data or responses, like two questions and Yeah.
And be able to piece 'em together really fast. Yeah.
Yeah. I like that superpower, internal processing power would be, yeah, exactly.
Yeah, exactly.
So when I ask you your career theme song Yeah. It just comes to you,
right? Yeah. Right. Exactly.
Yeah. That's my, yeah, I, I could see that one. Um, all right. Is there a question maybe you hope I'd ask you that I haven't asked?
Um, let's see. We didn't talk about the experience at the Fabric workshop. Do you want to hear any of that?
Oh, yeah. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. All right, so let's go this way. Is there a story you love to tell?
Yes. Um, some, sometimes people will ask like, how did I get into the world of textile design? And I mean, I could talk about it forever, but essentially it was the apprenticeship that I had.
At that art studio in Philadelphia, it was, it is called the Fabric Workshop and Museum. Um, it's an art studio. They called it an arts laboratory. This benefactor started years ago. She was very interested in the arts and she start built the studio and invited contemporary artists of the time to come in and work with studio staff.
So what the Fabric workshop does is, um, they create fabric, they silkscreen onto fabric, and they do. Basically what's called repeat yardage fabric, so that you can take this fabric and do anything you want with it. Like any fabric. Um, the artists that would come in to work with the studio staff were people that didn't necessarily know about fabric.
They would be photographers or sculptors or video installation artists, uh, mixed media artists. And so, when. I took on that when I became part of the apprenticeship program, my job was to just kind of like do whatever they asked me to. So sometimes it was mixing pigments to get the color right for that fabric.
Sometimes it was pinning fabric. Um, sometimes it was like running errands, you know, going to get stuff for whoever. Right. But being there allowed me to see this. Like really cool world of contemporary art. And so the apprenticeship program was supposed to last about three months, I think. The summer months, right?
Um, well afterwards I was invited back because I won a scholarship. And so, um, I did that and then I got a job doing like, uh, being a studio assistant. So I'd give tours at the museum. And so that three month stint ended up being, I feel like six years. And so, uh, I built a really great relationship with this, the artist there.
And I remember one day I was working on getting fabric set up to be printed, and I was kind of just kinda complaining a little bit about the, the program that I was in at school, at college. And I was studying biology at the time, and I was just like, pinning fabric. I hate this, you know, I don't wanna be in a lab, blah, blah, blah.
And one of the, uh, studio artists said, you should check out this school called the. Philadelphia College of Textiles and Science, it's just down the road. I was like, what? And I'm pinning this fabric, so I'm like, what's a textile? And she's like, you've been working with it for the last six years. You know, you're, you're an idiot.
But she, uh, but she's like, you know, you should go check it out. You know, that you can see how it's made and all that stuff. And so I did. And, um. I, I loved it. I mean, I saw, I felt like I saw my people, you know, they were all in the studio working on looms and like, there was, you know, fabric everywhere, colors, and it just, I mean, the vibe fit.
And so I, I switched out of biology into this new school and this new new program and yeah, I found my people and you know, I've been doing it ever since. That's awesome. Yeah.
I love that. Do you ever. Wonder, like if you didn't have the courage to switch out biology.
Oh man.
You know, like I feel like there's so many forks in the road.
Yeah.
Some of them, you know, like, you know, that happened, like you can put a finger on it.
Yeah.
That was a moment. Right. But like there are probably so many that you haven't even thought about or Oh, yeah. You know, are there any other forks in the road? Like, is that, that was a great one. Is there another, I mean, obviously you met your, your wife somehow, somewhere.
Yeah.
Yeah. That could have been one. I mean, yeah,
actually, so when I went to that new school, the Philadelphia College of Textiles, which is now Jefferson University, um, I met a friend, her name is Julie, um, that was part of the same program. Well, Julie graduated and moved to California and got a job in the flooring industry.
We didn't learn about flooring, but somehow she got a job in the flooring industry. So I graduated and Julie's company had a, a job opening. So I moved out to California, started working while I was out there, Julie's friend Heather was visiting just for the summer or whatever. And, um, Heather and I started hanging out and now we've been married for over 20 years, so that's
a definite fork in the road.
Totally. Like it. You you don't go to Cali. Yeah. You don't meet Heather. Yeah. You don't have a family. Exactly. Well you do, but it's a different family. It's a different, yeah, exactly. Not near as cool as the one you have now. Yeah.
It's definite fork in the road. Yeah.
Uh, I love it, man. I, I like, I like thinking about that stuff just because you just become grateful for like, gosh, now you're sitting in this chair.
Yeah. You know, like none of this. That's crazy.
Absolutely. I remember that. Um. At that time, there were two of us that, uh, were trying to get that job in California and it was another graduate from my school. And, um, she passed up on the opportunity. So if she had said yes, like same thing, oh my gosh, I dunno what, you know, that's crazy.
Or whatever. In some ways,
in some ways, like things feel more fragile. Hmm. You know, when someone else's decision. Could have changed. Yeah. Your life. Like, wait, you didn't have control. Like, that makes it feel, it makes your whole life feel more fragile.
Yeah. You know, I, I don't know. Like it's hanging on the balance of like a lot of other decisions.
Right. Yeah. I know. Isn't
that weird?
Uh,
I'm getting lost, Robbie. It's always great to talk to you. Same here, Doug. This in the spirit of love, what you do. All right. Help me finish this sentence. Yeah. Um, when you love what you do, say that again. I'm sorry. Yeah. I'll wait till this, wait till that guy passes.
Alright. So in the spirit of love, what you do? Yeah. Help me finish this sentence. When you love what you do,
When you love what you do, it's all worthwhile.
I mean, there's, there, it's no secret that we all human beings are living under so much pressure, right? Like pressure to perform at work with the family, you know, whatever it might be, right?
I think when you love what you do, it helps you found, have this foundation. Of like a solid foundation. I mean, for me, I feel like it's a foundation that's built on like gratitude and thankfulness and, you know, just appreciation. You know, that I get to do something that I love and it doesn't feel like it's a burden.
Hmm. Um, I get to part in our really cool industry. I get to interact with a lot of wonderful people, amazingly talented people. I get to actively think about products that are going into the world and try to be responsible with it. Um, and if we do it, if I do it well, I think it's all worth the while. I
love that you, you are so rooted in appreciation.
I, I think it's, uh. You know, may, let me ask you, you know, you talked about your parents. I wanna go back there. Yeah. 'cause this is taking me in that direction. Okay. Sorry. Yeah. I'm just gonna close. No, I'm not. Lemme keep going. All right. Uh, you talked about, you know, your parents sort of putting down a career, right.
And then picking up odd jobs. Yeah. Right when they moved here. Um, you know, like, is love what you do? Is it. The thing you do? Or is it the person who's doing it? Meaning, you know, were Did they get there
in what? Loving what they did? Yeah. I don't know if they didn't, they never showed it. I mean, you know, I think, uh, you know, they, they ended up.
Doing the thing that they did for many years, but it was hard, you know? Um, and, you know, they would talk about it being hard, but they were, I mean, um, my mom's not with us anymore, but she was, I mean, she was always like, you know, a, a happy person. Like, I remember her as a happy person and my dad, um, uh, thank God he's still with us.
And you know, they, they did what they had to do. They didn't, you know, they didn't complain. And so maybe it's the person,
yeah.
All right. Well, you, you are that
person, Rob. Thanks man. You are the person. I appreciate that. Yeah. Uh, thanks for being a part of this. Thank you, Doug. Yeah, thanks for joining me here.
I love what you do.