Doug sits down with Cheryl Durst, CEO of IIDA, for a thoughtful, funny, and deeply human conversation about design, purpose, and the moments that shape us. From the connection between comfort and safety to the power of storytelling, Cheryl shares personal reflections, unexpected questions, and a few unforgettable metaphors — including a library, a peppermint-scented memory, and the unexpected color of optimism.
(upbeat music)
- Welcome to the Love What You Do podcast. I'm your host Doug Shapiro. These are
the conversations that open doors to what's possible when you love what you do.
Well, welcome to the Love What You Do podcast, Cheryl. - Excited. - CEO of IADA.
- We were at an event together in January, your event. - We were, industry round
table. - Yes, and there was a magician and she asked a question to us all,
what's your superpower? And I'm not gonna ask you, but I'm gonna tell you one of
yours. - Oh, okay, even better. - One of your superpowers is questions. I think,
and I don't know if there's a more important superpower today, honestly, questions.
Um, but it is absolutely one of your superpowers. So I asked you just some ideas,
just a few questions that might help us think differently. You gave me a list. I
gave you a list indeed. I'm going to start with what I thought might be the
easiest one. Perhaps it's the hardest though. I don't know. What's it like being you
right now? That is the hardest question you zeroed right in on that one.
And, um, And I love that question because often,
when you ask that question of somebody, they'll project, right? And they will tell
you what it's like being someone else.
It is comfortably uncomfortable being me right now.
Huh, meaning that you've gotten used to being uncomfortable? Yes, I have gotten
accustomed to being uncomfortable, I sometimes have this sense that if I'm too
comfortable, that equates to complacence. And that means I'm not doing something or
not doing enough of something. And so if I'm slightly uncomfortable,
it means that I still have work to do. So there's that internal piece.
The tenor of the times is just uncomfortable. And I think that I've come across in
the last couple of years people who generally feel uncomfortable.
And so there is this part of me that wants to nurture and comfort. And so I feel
like I'm doing a lot of that these days, And it takes a lot out of me.
So there is this depletion moment, but I can't stand to see a question unanswered
or a person not satisfied or a situation that doesn't need to be buttoned up or
tied up.
So it's been comfortably uncomfortable because I like doing those things.
- Yeah, yeah. I mean, I have to ask just 'cause there's a component of the
question, what's it like being you right now? And I have to wonder like, was there
an era that you, in your life that was like the comfortable era? - Ooh,
I think a comfortable era for me was
when my children were younger and I was full on mom. I was,
I was still working, but I was in the zone of being full on mom.
And I was surprised by that because I didn't know that I would love it so much.
And I think, you know, a lot of women struggle with that too. And, but I was
doing the thing. They were, They were thriving, I was working,
home was happy, work was happy. And it was one of those moments where oddly enough,
I was expecting it to be difficult, right? I was thinking I was gonna be juggling
all of, having all of the balls in the air. And then I realized it's like, ooh, I
like juggling. I like doing this. - I wonder if like purpose has like,
there's a component of purpose in this equation of comfort? - I think so, and
retrospectively, when I thought about this, I felt like I was raising IIDA at the
same time I was raising my children. - Wow. - And so the two things,
motherhood and CEOhood, if that's a word, combined and merged and conflated with one
another. And it was a really interesting thing for me to watch this organization
grow up as I was watching my children grow up. - You know, there's,
you know, just hearing you talk about comfort, there was a question you asked about
comfort and safety, whether they're the same thing, whether they're related.
Is this something you're exploring in your mind? - I am. I find the connection
between comfort and safety fascinating and I think it is the world that designers
delve in a lot. And so the question I ask myself, is it possible to feel
comfortable if you're not feeling safe in any way, shape or form?
and is it possible to feel safe if you are uncomfortable? And do the two require
one another in some intrinsic deep way? And I'm not sure that I know the answer.
I think the easy answer is you must have one to have the other, but that feels
too easy. And I think at this moment in time, whether it's culturally or socially
or politically or even with physical health, I think we're having an interesting
moment where comfort is not necessarily the order of the day, nor is safety,
you know, we worry about our physical safety, we worry about our psychological
safety, our emotional safety, our data safety and security. There are a lot of
components to safety that I think occupy a fair amount of mind share.
and I also worry about the guilt sometimes that comes with when people feel
comfortable, it's like, oh, am I too comfortable? At the little bit, like for me
that kicks in, it's like almost you're waiting for the other shoe to drop. Like if
things are going too well, it's like, oh, hell no, what's coming around the pike?
- This is interesting, this idea of guilt and comfort. I mean, like I've been in
situations where I feel like I don't deserve something. - It's a little bit right,
it's obviously maybe a little bit tied in with imposter syndrome too when people
start asking themselves, do I deserve this? Should I have this? And it comes up a
lot for me, I have this conversation a lot with people that we do see so much
sadness and oppression and deficiencies in our world.
And then when all of a sudden you have something, you feel guilty that the person
sitting next to you may not have that same comfort and safety and access,
right? We think of all the things that we have. And I think so many of us are
good, kind -hearted people that we want to share, can you share comfort?
Yeah, yeah. I mean, maybe a smile is sometimes maybe the easiest way to get
started. Yeah, yeah, because what makes me comfortable may not make the person
sitting next to me comfortable or feeling safe. That could make someone uncomfortable.
Right, yeah, that's true. A random smile could. Ooh, yeah. unless you're in the
Midwest. Like we love, we love random smiles in the Midwest. That's so true.
All right. So you spotlighted a little of today's uncertainty. I think you called it
the tenor of the moment and the way it feels. And I think those words really
captured that. So it's the right time for me to ask another question from your list
here that I love. What do you have faith in? Hmm.
So,
So I have faith in design, that feels so obvious,
but I do, I absolutely have faith in people who are thinking about and creating and
crafting for other people.
For me, that's a signal that a heart and a mind is in the right place. I have
faith in optimism and that things will get better.
Or if they don't get better, we at least get beyond.
I have faith in my family and my children and my husband because if all else gets
shot to hell, I I still have my family. - I go back to that so often,
like personally. - Yeah. - Like I look at situations where I've messed up. Like,
and I'm like, well, if everybody hates me and, you know, I get fired or whatever.
- Nobody hates you, but you know what I'm saying. - You're a Dutch Shapiro. - You
know, I just know, like, I got that. I go back to that, I'm always gonna be a
hero there. - There you go. I have faith in storytelling. I think storytelling is a
great talisman, even in bad times. It's something that we can turn to,
whether it's you're listening to someone tell a story or you are telling your own
story. And I wouldn't be me if I didn't have faith in books. (laughing) - Yeah,
no kidding. Faith in books, faith in puns. - Bad puns.
words. Yeah. Uh, you know, I didn't ask you this, but I, but I love you always
pick a word of the year, but you don't necessarily always pick one, but you
spotlight word of the year. So you'll, you'll dial into Miriam Webster or whatever
and pick your word of the year. What do you think this year, 2025,
what will the word of the year be? You can't say tariff. Okay. Okay. I can't
'cause I was totally gonna say that.
Unfortunately, on the negative side, I think that one of the words for this year
will just be upheaval and uncertainty because from day to day,
we don't have a sense of what's going to be next. Sometimes we don't even know
what's now or next. So that's on the negative side. I will still lay faith and
stock in optimism because, and I keep hearing it more and more,
people seem to be leaning into optimism. They seem to be looking for optimism.
Just I was on a flight and the people sitting behind me were talking about what's
the color of optimism? You know, I couldn't let that go. I had to turn around and
have a whole chat. And so it ended up being this really fun conversation about
color palette. And on the flight that we were on,
right? Everything on a flight is blue or gray or dull. And so this particular
passenger said, wouldn't it be great to just have a spot of color? The woman who
was sitting on the other side, she said, and she was in her 70s and she was
talking about Braniff Airlines and how they were the airline that really introduced a
lot of color in the flight attendant uniforms and on the exterior of the plane and
on the interior. And so it ended up being this great conversation about now and how
people wish that there were some signal, and color was the obvious one, some signal
to tell us things will be okay. - I feel like color is, it feels like a signal.
I agree, when you were saying blue and gray and boring, I was like, oh great,
I picked the right shirt for the day.
But it's, and none of the folks were in design and it turns out the woman who was
in her 70s who had flown on Braniff was a sociologist and she was
She said, you know, we need color in our lives. It tells us, it tells us how we
might feel, which I thought was a really interesting. She said, it tells us how we
feel. It tells us how we might feel. It just sends this good signal. And so as we
were deplaning, we all decided that the color of optimism is yellow. I thought you
were gonna say that. Yeah. Wow. Yeah. Interesting.
You know, I I can't help but draw a connection between optimism and design. It
feels like it's the bedrock of design Do you want to talk about that connection a
little bit? It is In my opinion the most optimistic profession because of the
investment in the human heart and the human soul and designers are crafting and
creating for how people are now and how they will be. And it just for me,
design means that you have ultimate faith in the human spirit. And to have ultimate
faith in that human spirit, you're creating for the best of the human spirit. You're
creating better places to maximize that brain and that heart and that soul.
And whether it's a school, a classroom or a dentist's office or the workplace,
you're believing that human beings will be their best at that moment in that place
or that that place will leave a lasting impression with them. So it might impact
them, but it might be a week later that they were in this special place. - Yeah, I
feel like there's this connection of the profession and then even the designer
themselves, in that moment, you know, you can't help but bring your energy into your
work. You know, if you're, you know, you see that in art,
you can, you can look at the piece and you can say, well, I know I have a sense
of how they felt when they made this. And it probably inevitably happens in design,
whether we like it or not. It has to and whether you call it energy or vibe,
or passion, or talent, it is the ultimate of that human being who is in that
creative moment, creating for another human being or a group of human beings.
And so not only is design optimistic, it's altruistic too, because you're doing this
for someone. And I know you've heard me say this before, but design is about what
happens on the receiving end. And I think a lot of people think that design is
about the designer, but it's about the people or groups of people or cultures or
society that receives that. - Yeah, yeah. All right, I wanna jump into some questions
that I'll just stretch our brains a little here. - Okay.
- Let's talk about the future. Actually, it's kind of talking about the future from
a point of view of today 40 years from now when people ask you about this moment
in time Or ask anybody about this moment of time How do we capture that?
hmm How I would Capture now if I were talking about it if somebody asked me about
now, 40 years from now, there's a part of me that says we spent a fair amount of
time looking for an outlet to charge our devices. Cord management was an issue,
but I think that, like this very moment coming out of O 'Hare Airport and off a
flight and having that conversation with that group of people in the two rows,
I so enjoyed that because there was curiosity and there was civility.
And I think those are two things that we lean into now.
I think right now there's a moment where we're very curious. There's a lot of why
this, and sometimes it's negative. Why is this happening? Why is this happening to
them? Or why is this happening to me? So there's the curiosity piece, but we're
craving civility. And that goes back to that chaos and upheaval moment.
I think that 40 years from now, who knows what technology will have shifted to or
brought us or taken from us. But I think retrospectively now we'll feel like we
were grappling with technology, but when hasn't humankind ever grappled with
technology, like here's fire, here's a wheel, here's a printing press. We've always
grappled with things that purportedly will make our lives better.
But I think there's a huge grappling now that we will see 40 years from now.
How did we manage it? Did we make the best of it? Did we make the worst of it?
And then I think I will recall this moment as perhaps a return to what is
essentially human. There seems to be in thinking about humanity and emotional
wellbeing that this maybe was the moment and maybe because of the pandemic that we
leaned into what does it mean to be human as a human,
but then what does it mean to be part of a community? And how do we support that
community? That was a lot. It was a lot, but just thinking about,
just listening to you speak, thinking about this question, it kind of forces us,
the question itself forces us to like, things that look big right now, or that feel
big, you know, you realize, well, 40 years from now,
no one would make a mention of that thing. - Right. - And it forces you to focus
on like, what are the big things that we're feeling or that are happening, the
really big things. And like you said, it was like you took a conversation and but
you connected it to like, you know, a civility or like a movement, something that's
happening. And I think that's kind of what that question does for me. - Yeah, and
it was, that was interesting because we were two rows of three. There were these
six disparate people who did not know one another. Our only common thread was we
were on a flight from Washington DC to Chicago.
And It was interesting because it was the color conversation that all of a sudden,
everybody had a thought about or an opinion about. And because it was a flight from
Washington DC, you would think that the top of that conversation would have been
about politics, but we could not have been further away from politics. I wonder if
anyone's had a conversation on a plane that has Like gone three rows deep, you
know, like I could see a two row convo, but like a three row big, the biggest
conversation be on a plane. That would be interesting. That would be an interesting
metric. It would mean the people in those subsequent third row, fourth row, have
really good ears. So there is that. Or it is just people, it's just too loud.
Well, there is that too. Um, all right. This is kind of a fun question You sent
me four words rules
Protocols standards and rituals. I say those slowly because you know You must need
to hear them twice Understand that there's subtle differences rules standards protocols
rituals and then there are ones that motivate you. Uh, that you restrain you.
Uh -huh. So, you know, what got you thinking about that? I mean, is this something
that you're exploring in your life or work or? Oh, a little bit,
um, rules, protocol, standards, rituals. I feel like so often we're governed by
rules. Um, we observe protocols.
We're often beholden to standards, but rituals are the things that are closest to
us. And maybe our heart obeys rituals,
but our mind is fixated on rules and standards and protocols. Or those three things
are something that other people impose on us and rituals are something that, that we
give ourselves. Um, but the, the four things are fascinating in a lot of ways.
I think it has everything to do maybe with how you grew up or like, I had 12
years of Catholic school and so a lot of rules, a lot of rules, but there's a lot
of ritual too. Yeah. Um, but But yeah, I'm probably going through a moment right
now where I'm kind of examining and I think we force some things on ourselves too.
Like I'm supposed to sound like this. I'm supposed to think like this. I'm supposed
to dress like this. I might be like having a late midlife crisis or something, but
these structures that are either set up for us or structures that we set up for
ourselves, How do we operate within those structures, but then also what happens when
you break them all down? - Yeah, I mean, actually just the thought of knowing, like
there are structures that I put myself in. - Mm -hmm. - Like, wow, like I didn't
know I was putting myself in a cage, you know? - I might be doing that. - Yeah,
it's interesting because this idea of belonging and what we do to belong.
And so you've got kids, you know, that whether it's middle school and probably even
younger, you know, kids will do whatever they need to do to, you know,
be a part of the crowd to belong. And that doesn't stop in middle school or high
school, I think as we get older, it's that idea of how do we fit in?
But then the flip side of that is thinking of all the ways we don't fit in. And,
you know, but is fitting in a luxury or is it a trap?
- Good question.
Doesn't feel like a luxury. - It doesn't, but you know, we're in this moment now
where we talk about design for belonging and we walk into a space and we wanna
feel as if we belong, we wanna look around and have some touchstones that tell us
I belong here. So there are different levels. I think there are different shades of
belonging. - Yeah, so like fitting in to me feels different than-- - Is different
than belonging, absolutely. - It feels more, what's the word like metamorphic, you
know, like Yeah, you're making effort to fit in, but someone makes an effort to
help you feel like it was. Yeah, you're contorting yourself in some way that's not
true to you to fit in. And sometimes I think that happens consciously. I think that
that can happen unconsciously, but belonging is the other side of that coin where
it's positive and you are belonging I want to belong and there's warmth associated
with belonging, but then there is a coldness to fitting in.
- It almost feels like belonging is something that has to happen to you. - Yeah,
yeah. - Like you don't make that happen. - Right, but fitting in you are, you're
making yourself do that. - Yeah, yeah.
You know, you like to explore words. Uh, there's another subject that I think I,
I'm deep into. So I'm curious to see where you take this, uh, around the basics of
education. Uh, you know, you had called out reading, writing, math,
you know, all the fundamentals. Is that, you know, where are we in the education
journey with that being the core thing? This, are we, are we missing more of that?
Are we, do we need less of it? Or what is the thing? - Yeah, so those three
things that, you know, if you're a certain age, you grew up with, you know,
reading, writing, and arithmetic. We're kind of the basic competencies. And so it's a
question that I'm asking myself are, yeah, we all, yes, we do still need to read.
Writing is incredibly important. And I guess math is too. (laughing) I like I threw
that in there. Yeah, no, okay, math. So I was not a math nerd. Love numbers didn't
like math. But what are the basic competencies for now and next?
The ability to communicate will always be, I think at the baseline competency that
we should always be able to
competently and confidently communicate with others. I think expression and self
-expression will always matter. But there are some of those softer competencies that I
wonder about, like the ability to read the room. - Yeah. - And we did a webinar at
IIDA last week around presentation skills. And reading the room came up in that,
particularly we were talking about in sales and design, where you're doing a pitch,
and what are the signals that you get that you're not engaging your audience. And
so that recognition of what others are receiving or not receiving from you.
I think that's a skill that will carry you well through life. Nobody teaches you
that, though. That's one of those on -the -job things. And it does fit neatly into
that bucket of presentation skills. I think there are other skills that fit in there
as well. But is that something we need to do a better job of teaching children,
students, how to present? Yeah, I think presentation I can't help but go to question
asking I feel like That is a Such a 180 from where we grew up,
right? You know, I mean unless you had like a really brilliant teacher that was
working hard to infuse curiosity in you Yeah, you know where it's like hey read
this chapter and I want to hear everybody's best question, you know Yeah, that was
never something something you've got? - It wasn't, the competency of curiosity.
People think of it as a quality, but I believe that you can develop or uncover or
unveil healthy curiosity. And so it's not just the asking of great questions,
it's thinking of great questions. And so that exercise of thinking of 10 great
questions, you may not know the answers to them, but what are 10 questions you
would like to ask yourself or like to ask of anyone or ask of your parents. Like
I think that is an incredible skill set to have, to quite a phrase. Yes,
skill set. Nice drop. Yeah, nice drop there. It's always great to talk to another
host too, because you just, you know it, you get it.
There was a comment you made. I don't or when, but it stuck with me. This is not
one of your questions. But I'm just, I'm thinking about the title, "Love What You
Do." I'm really personally drawn to it. But you made a comment once, "It's not your
job's job to make you happy." Oh. And I hung on to that phrase. Yeah. Because,
well, first of all, I kind of was like, I want to understand it. You know, I want
to think about it.
When did that come to you? How did that surface? So those are words of wisdom from
Dorothea Stubblefield, my mom. No way. And I was in my early 20s and lamenting
that I wish that I were happier at work. And she said, so do something about it,
if you're not happy, are you not happy with the work? Are you not happy with the
people? Are you not happy with the place? She, my mother was a scientist. You've
heard me talk about her. So she was definitely all about delving into the why.
And I guess I groused a little too much about my unhappiness. And that's when she
said, it's not your job's job to make you happy. And she was Super pragmatic and
super logical, born in the 30s, and she firmly believed that work was work.
And she loved her work. She had, she was a passionate and inquisitive.
She was a microbiologist. And so passionate and inquisitive, but she never believed
that work should make you happy. If it did make you happy,
that was an incredible byproduct, but not to take a job or work for the sole
pursuit of happiness. Yeah, yeah. And that, like with you, that stayed with me and
I wrestle with it still because I don't think any of us want to do unsatisfying
work. I know, that's the piece where I'm That's the, but is the purpose of that,
right? The purpose on the 15th and the 30th, somebody renumerates you for the work
that you're doing, which is great. If you happen to love the work and love the
people, when it's one tidy package, it is amazing. How often is it one tidy
package? And so when one piece of that package does not work for you,
what do people tend to do? If you're not making enough money, you will often go
someplace else. Or if you're unhappy with the work that you're doing or unsatisfied,
you will go someplace else. Have people left work simply because it doesn't fulfill
their joy or their happiness. I wrestle with this all the time. And then given the
life that I have at IIDA where we talk about with our members work and workplace.
This is something for more than 30 years because I was in my 20s when my mom said
this to me. It is something that I have, like if I ever go back to school and
get a PhD, that might be my thesis. - Yep, yep. I mean, there's so much to unpack.
- There is a lot there. - It's interesting that you also, that was something you
wrestled with or even still do, there's a lot to think about. So what's your job's
job? Is the question. If your job's job is not to make you happy,
if you don't subscribe to that, but what is your job's job? That's good.
That is a spiral. Yeah.
We're in workplace. - So let's get into my last big question.
Let's talk about work and place and workplace. And which of those two things is it
more of? Is it more about the work or more about the place? - I think it depends
on the day of the week. I think it depends on the moment in your career.
I think for so any of us who love what we do,
it's the work. It's the work, which feels like me being disingenuous to design
because I know how much the place is intrinsic to the work.
And could I do the thing
in the absence of an amazing place that supports the work, maybe,
big old question mark at the end of that maybe. Sure. When the place can incubate
and support the work and the people and the purpose and the craft,
it all becomes quite this beautiful thing. But I think there are people who can
say, "They don't need the place, just give me the work." - Yeah,
until they have the place. - Right. - And then they're like, "Oh, this feels
different." - All of a sudden, a light bulb goes off. That's like, "How have I been
doing all of this work "without this amazing place?" Yeah, 'cause we've seen that.
We have the inordinate luxury and privilege and honor in this industry to know that
work and place should be one word. Yeah, it's hard also to go backwards in anything
you do. You know, it's hard, you know, and when you experience something that
unlocks a new level of, you know, joy or a new level of productivity or whatever
it is. And then that's gone, that's hard. - I, A,
in talking about workplace, I know that I could never work in a shitty place. I
just couldn't.
Because I know what it is like to work in a wonderfully beautiful,
efficient, effective, functional space that makes me smile every time I walk into it.
You've been into our offices, you know. Like there's a feeling there that supports
the work that we do that is emblematic of who we do this work for of an entire
industry. I can't ever imagine unbundling those things.
And so for me, workplace is this, it's a bundle. - It's a bundle. I like it.
We need, there's probably lots of good bundles out there. - There are some good
bundles out there. - Peanut butter and jelly, you know. - Exactly, ham and cheese.
- Go right to food, I go right to food every time.
Our wife and I were like, we live to eat. It's like, we just like, I don't
Food's, it's food is comfort, food is safety. - Yeah, it's discovery.
- It is, it brings, you know, it's funny when we're talking about curiosity, it,
yes. It's ritual. - Yeah, it's ritual. Like I love making breakfast.
- Yeah. - Like I can't wait to make breakfast in the morning. - There's meaning
there.
There is, you know, Food is love. Yeah. It's - Oh,
my wife's lasagna. Oh, there you go. Like, I can't make this. If she ever left me,
the lasagna would bring me heart. And you don't have the recipe? Oh, I know, I
know. You probably can't make it the way that she makes it. No, I can't. No one
else loves it like I do, but I'm just like, I can't. Yeah. I just have to - So I
think food is a great metaphor. It is, it - Um,
Cheryl, is there a good story you'd love to tell? - Oh, you know, I love a good
story. - You just love to do them. - A little bit ties into the belonging moment.
I was with a group of people and we were talking about grandmothers.
And many of us and the group have good memories of our grandmothers.
We weren't, many of us had lost our grandmothers at an early age. And so my
paternal grandmother in Toledo, Ohio, it was a ritual for us.
I didn't realize it was a ritual at the time. It was just the thing that we did.
But I would walk with her to, we'd go to the bank and then as a special treat,
she would take me to the library. Oh wow. And she, it's funny because I told a
little bit of the story when I interviewed Rebecca Walker
and just the quality of this time with my grandmother. And I was,
I was four, No older than five because I hadn't started school.
I had a late birthday and couldn't start kindergarten with everybody else, the curse
of a December birthday.
And so my grandmother had a deep distrust of banks, but she would bundle up cash
and we would go to the bank and she would get dressed up. It was like a thing
for her. And that was also when I became very aware of buildings because we'd walk
into this bank in downtown Toledo, Ohio and the ceilings were high
and the floors were marble and slippery and it was just this very kind of,
it inspired something in me and I almost felt, and I would hold her hand. I
remember snuggling very close to her and there were guards all over the place. So
we do the thing with money and she talked to the teller and the back then the
tellers were like almost behind a cage. Yeah. And there'd be this transaction going
on. And then she'd look at me and say, "Okay, now we're going to go to the
library." And I got really excited because that's where books live. And one of my
earliest memories of going to the library, and I was an only child and didn't spend
a lot of time around other children. I spent most of my time with my parents and
with my grandparents. We walk into the library and she walked me over to the
children section and Miss Ruby was having reading circle and so there were other
kids there and there may have been a school field trip I vaguely remember these
other children had name badges on and my grandmother said I'm going to leave you
here with the other kids and I'm gonna go I'm assuming she went to go get a book,
but it wasn't until many years later, I didn't realize my grandmother couldn't read.
So I don't know what she did in the library, but she left me with these other
kids and Miss Ruby, who was easily one of the most beautiful women I've ever seen.
I'm fairly convinced she was a combination of Eartha Kitt and Diane Carroll. Like
she turned around and she had this like bouffant hair because it's the '60s. And
she had this beautiful dress on. I remember the color of this dress. Her name was
Miss Ruby, and it was this like ruby red scarlet dress that she had on. And she
looked at me and she said, "Oh, welcome to Reading Circle." And she made this very
elegant motion of her hand, and she said, "Come sit next to me."
There were books, there were other kids, and somebody with this very seductive
beckoning of her hand, I thought those were the most beautiful words, come sit next
to me. - Oh my gosh, yeah. - And I remember being really excited,
and she's holding a book in both hands. I don't remember what the story was.
Bagley, it could have been one of Esop's fables, or it was mythology, I don't,
I, she smelled good. There was this circle, she smelled like peppermint.
So again, like, I don't know if I like later in life, thought it was a red dress
and she smelled like peppermint, but those words come sit next to me.
I thought were the, it just felt beautiful. - It does. And I was welcomed into the
circle of kids who I didn't know. This woman I had never set eyes on in my life
and she invited me to sit next to her and then she proceeded to read. Wow. And it
was magical. And so now, whenever I see kids sitting in a circle,
I always go back to that moment. And the floor smelled It was it was a polished
wood floor and I remember what it felt like sitting on that floor and touching
touching the wood I remember the little girl next to me was fidgeting on a little
bit But she moved over to make room for me because she clearly prized her spot
sitting next to miss Ruby And so she had to move over to make room for the
stranger But it was like the quality of that moment which brought into play for me
the visual of the library, the smell of the books, somebody reading,
somebody welcoming me to sit next to them. There were so many layers in that moment
that still kind of resonate for me now and cause me to think of things that I
know are important in life and in work. - Wow. - Come sit next to me.
Like whenever I have peppermint or smell peppermint, that takes me right back to Ms.
Ruby. - Ms. Ruby, that is so awesome. - Yeah. (laughs) - Aw, I mean, seriously,
let's Ms. Ruby. - Yeah. (upbeat music) - You know, Sherry, this has been a fantastic
conversation. I knew it would be. - It's been fun. - It has been. Thank you for
being a part of this, really. - Thank you for asking me to be a part of it and
keep asking me for questions. I love sharing questions, so I'm just gonna, whether
you ask for them or not, I'm just gonna send you questions. - Please do.
Thanks for joining me here on Love What You Do.