In the latest episode of Love What You Do, Aga Artka, Founder and Author of The Brand of You, shares why the strongest personal brands for designers aren’t measured by a portfolio. They’re built through the relationships they cultivate, the promises they keep, and the values they consistently demonstrate through their work.
00:04
Welcome to the Love What You Do podcast. I'm your host, Doug Shapiro. These are the conversations that open doors to what's possible when you love what you do. So, what's your passion? What's my passion? Yeah, how would you define your passion? You are steeped in it right now. This is it. This? Yeah, absolutely. Just feeding off of people's stories and finding out what drives them? Yes. Yeah. You know, I'm motivated by inclusion. I'm motivated by helping others be heard, sharing, storytelling. All the things that are swirling around this right now are the stuff that I love.
00:56
oh we're so happy we have so much in common yeah we do i can't wait to get into that oh before we even get to like the serious stuff though i have uh i have warm-up questions okay warm-up questions yeah yeah fun stuff here should we do like physical physical warm-up go ahead we could do that sure you can be as expressive as you want to be we can widen the camera angle if you need to whatever um If you could take a fictional character to dinner, who would you take? Ooh, a fictional character. Yeah. It would have to be some character that's related to magic.
01:46
And I mean, the most recent, I think I would say the one that we've been living through, which is Harry Potter. Oh, yeah. I mean, fictional, not fictional. it's very real, but also it's, you know, created. Right. Yeah. So I, I think. So are you a Harry or a Ron or like, you know, Miss Granger? Who are you? Miss Granger. Oh, I, you know what? I don't know all the character names, but, um, the professor that turns into, um, a cat. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Totally infatuated by that. Professor McGonagall. There we go. Yeah. I think it would be lovely to spend time with her. There's something about learning through and from, like, you know, people that bring level of experience and wisdom. I feel like I gravitate towards that.
02:42
So that's who you'd want to have dinner with. I would love to have dinner with that person. There's also another person, a character that I grew up reading stories of this. um, sort of magical character, but that's, you know, my past life. I grew up in Poland, right? So, uh, most people will not. I was going to say, is this your way of saying you'll have no idea who I'm talking about? But I do, but I totally do remember reading, um, these stories and these books and sort of devouring them in, you know, a corner of a room where nobody could see me and that's cool where like your mind is thinking through and creating the magical world that you're reading about yeah yeah you're painting a picture i can imagine you you know as a 10 year old right now in that room um okay how about this one since we're
03:34
since we're in the childhood space yeah if there was a childhood game that could be turned into an olympic sport what would be the one that you would meddle in could be a board game it could be Playground, game, whatever. Olympic sports. So this is about competition. Yeah. Yeah. If there was a childhood game that could be turned into a competition, what would be your go-to? My gosh. I mean, I played a lot of cards growing up. Okay. I mean, starting with war, the simplest game ever. Sure. That could be really fun. I also remember playing a lot of like, you know, courtyard games where like Duck, Duck, Goose, that sort of game where, you know, you participate, like you want people to participate and then slowly you get to the winner. I think that sort of touches on inclusivity and having.
04:43
a lot of kids play together and participate in a game yes they have there has to be a winner but also it's no fun when there are when there's only two of you yeah so it's about including and creating a space where everybody can play i like that so duck duck goose in the olympics that would be awesome i would totally watch that so you're the master goose i guess at the end of the process i don't know oh that would be such an awesome olympic game uh good one well i'll go thank you for being here with me um author of the brand of you and you will sign this for me at the end of this okay yeah um this book is really interesting and i mean this is the reason you're here i want to get into you and your history too but i also want to get into
05:33
the things that you share inside this book that i know can help the people listening um but since Since we started down the path of being nostalgic and connecting to your childhood, I know that's an important part of your journey. Let's start there. What do you want to know? Born in Poland. When did you come to the U.S. ? I came in 2002, a year after 9-11, and a couple months after I graduated high school. Wow. That's a really formative time in your life. to make a change like that very yes it's a point in which you realize the world um you know there's no limitations i guess and the world doesn't necessarily feel scary it feels open and exciting
06:28
but i think you're also old enough to know um that certain environments have limitations and may not be able to offer all that um there is to offer. Sure. And so, um, I think I've quickly realized after towards the end of my high school years and immediately after that, that there was just not a lot that I can do in the world I grew up in. Uh, it just seemed very, uh, closed and lacking opportunity. And so I, I seeked another way to try to build something better. And so through an, a study abroad program, which happened sort of to stumble or, you
07:23
know, land in my lap, I applied and a couple months later I, I was on the plane moving to, to join a group of foreign exchange students. fully on board were they nervous what was it depends who you ask sure um i feel like my my mother's always thought that there's better opportunities elsewhere um my dad is a family tight family man so i think he had a harder time with it but wasn't standing in the way and my brother was doing his own big thing so i don't know that he really had much say i mean he wouldn't anyway but yeah uh he was off doing his own things i mean you know that is a point in time in your life where risk maybe doesn't feel as heavy as it does later in
08:22
life i don't know that i would do it now 20 plus years later that's what i was gonna ask is like even since then have you reconnected with that person or does that person feel not like a I think it's a lot, um, I attribute a lot of this sort of, um, strength, I guess, to naivety, just not knowing what you're getting yourself into. Um, and so now I know, and I know the risks and I would have to think really hard. Wow. And I don't know that I did much thinking back then. It really was, we're just going to do it.
09:12
Did it bring you to Milwaukee? Milwaukee area. So I lived in just in a city, much smaller city north of Milwaukee for the first year and a half. Started to study up there in a community college. Just sort of learning how to learn. how to live and how to be and how this world is different from the world I grew up in. Now, when you were talking about opportunities, were you specifically referring to design? Opportunities for life. Um, I don't, I did not have a vision of being an interior designer from, uh, from the very early on as in, you know, from a high school, uh, graduation point. But I knew that I was creative.
10:04
I grew up in a household where there was a lot of music, there was a lot of dance, there was art, artistry. My mother ran an art gallery. She was a dancer. My dad is a drummer. I also very vividly remember having very easy time seeing space dimensionally. So I think some of those things were just sort of part of me. So when it came to selecting a direction of study, interior design just seemed like that could be a path, but it really wasn't formulated until a bit later. Okay. Okay. I think a lot of people find their way into interior design even later than that, even later in life. And I didn't have exposure to, you know, TV or...
10:58
or or magazines or personalities that are that may have influenced others decisions here in the states that's just not i mean that's not prevalent in poland uh at least it wasn't right so i think as a choice of study i mean it just wasn't on my radar in fact i i tried to i applied for journalism and didn't get in uh So communication and talking about important issues and reporting, that was more on my radar than creating spaces. But I think it's all surrounding the importance of building a community. So through design, that's what I've tried to do. Always thinking about the people and building a space for them to thrive and building a space where people feel connected and they belong.
11:54
that you have actually gone there to really understand what drove you to design um being an author is a whole different pursuit though right right um in a foreign language yes mind you that's so true yeah um i kind of want to skip to the book because i'm curious but i don't want to miss any of the good stuff like between those moments where you've established And now you're authoring a book to help other designers. Was there a straight path, uneventful, or were you all over the place? Well, the obvious answer is no.
12:42
I mean, the straight path in this career doesn't exist for anyone. And that's really what we talk about in the book. And that's what we try to instill. And maybe the expectation that we try to set up, too, is that you can make this career be whatever you want it to be, but the one thing it will not be is a straight path. I have, you know, I started a life at 19 that's completely different, that was completely different than the world I grew up in. Right away, that changes the trajectory of straight path. I traveled 3,000 miles, you know, over half the globe. So that's a curve right away. But I also had to, I mean, I had to endure a lot of challenges.
13:37
You know, you're new, you barely speak the language, you don't know the customs. Your name sounds weird. Nobody can ever pronounce it the right way. Now my last name is a little bit more straightforward, but maiden name is equally as challenging as my first name. And then decisions along the way, like they're just harder when you're new. And so every year things got easier, but I think it's very much a, you know, one step forward, two steps back, which again. defeats the the vision of a straight path did that build grit in you or did you already have that i think as an immigrant um who grew up you know under a regime that's less than democratic uh in poland under the ussr oppression um early on i mean um that ended
14:40
when I was um in grade school I think you learn you know you have to deal with the situation at hand and being resourceful is just what you have to do like that's just the way of life and so I carry that in me in me and everything I do has to be run through the lens of how do we how do we use the tools and the resources available to us uh no is not an answer can we do it better In fact, no is a fuel in my mind to try to find a solution no matter what. But also the fact of belonging is a big deal. And when you're different, that strikes a very important chord, which is part of the drive behind the book too.
15:34
Because in the creative field, um we're we're meant to express our differences and it's about putting yourself um in in a way that makes you different yeah but i think the systems in which we grow up in don't necessarily celebrate difference all that much so what we're trying to communicate and and focus on is that we are all different and it's it's in all of our best interest to to bring that out and to realize like what drives you what motivates you what is your passion it's all different so if you are able to connect with that I think it just makes life that much more joyful and in alignment that's so beautifully said and you know we've actually internally been exploring this word mosaic a lot and how you know when you build a mosaic imagine if
16:32
every piece was the same shape and the same color and how boring that would be right. So it's, you know, there is something beautiful about what happens when you bring those collective differences together and you recognize that. I'm glad you brought that up. You also mentioned fuel. And I know that's going to be a word that comes up later that's in the book. So we'll talk about fuel too. I didn't know no would be your fuel. That's pretty cool. But let's actually, I think it's a limitation. I, part of the nature of, of an immigrant perhaps is it's not like those, the path is not straight and it's not easy. And so there is no other way, but to overcome the limitation.
17:24
The only way out is through like, that's really what this comes down to. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, avoiding something. Yeah. won't make your situation better. Yeah. Yeah. All right. Let's go into the inspiration behind the book. You know, why do this in the first place? And by the way, you know, your co-author is actually just right behind me. So Jenny, Jenny's not on camera, but, but obviously there must've been a moment, a spark, a fork in the road, whatever it was. First of all, our collective love for the industry. I think we genuinely think that this is the best industry that you can practice in and you can choose for your career because it is so versatile, because it is so flexible. It is so challenging and it is what you make it to be.
18:21
But the flip side of that is because you can make it whatever you want it to be, it can be vague. If you don't have clarity in what you're after or what you're driven by and what you want to accomplish as a creative, it may seem like you're spinning or it may seem like you're lost or that you have no purpose. And that was very evident for Jenny and I when the industry found itself in the recession, 2008, 2009. Yeah. And that's really what this project came out of. It was a moment where we thought, designers are so capable, us included. But yet we saw so much struggle, right?
19:13
Like so many people lost their jobs. So many people were confused. So many people were just down. Their confidence and low esteem seemed to have reached really... new lows and nobody knew what you know what their future would be holding not for any personal um uh wrongdoing clearly because that was all driven by the economy but i think it was a moment in which we all realized that there there is some level of support that's not existent and some level of clarity that we can And this plan of creating or creating, because you can't create the brand. I mean, you have to define it, but I don't know that you create it.
20:02
It's really what people, how the reflection, that's the brand, it's the reflection of the world on what you're putting out. So we created this process of defining the brand of you and, and put it in a format of a book in hopes that more people could get a hold of it and find it in the moments that again lost um or questioning um their next move i mean you you talk about personal brand in the book um and you kind of made a point here it's not about necessarily fight fight like creating it you know you're not um saying well this is the person i i'm i'm this is the brand i'm trying to What is personal brand, not what is personal brand actually?
20:56
And what's the process that you go through to start to understand what your personal brand is? So we lean very heavily on the idea of human connections, personal connections, and networking. Because we believe that this industry and many other industries is built on People. People hire people. People help people. People have fun with people. And personal brands interact with each other. And so our definition of the brand of you or a personal brand is not about the image, the logo, the business card, your resume, none of that sort of visual representation. And it's all about people connections. And we define it as connection, relationship, and a promise.
21:48
So again, not very visual in its sense, but very much about what sort of connection are you making with the world around you? How are you building relationships through those connections and the messages that you share? And then the promise being, are you actually delivering on what you say? And are people around you agreeing with that message? Because you may say one thing and act another way, and then the promise doesn't get delivered. And so the personal brand has a little challenge with being understood. So an example would be if you say you're all about punctuality and you're 10 minutes late to every meeting or you're all about, you know, using people's time wisely. I mean, the simplest example we bring up is
22:43
if you say you're detail-oriented and your resume is riddled with typos. Are you really detail-oriented? How is that personal brand doing for you? Yeah. And so, you know, I think this idea that you have a personal brand. Right. You already have one. You're not inventing it. But then understanding what that really is, I think that is something that... we go through throughout our whole lives it probably ebbs and flows like it probably changes over time you acquire new skills or you develop maybe a new sense of purpose at times because your personal brand evolved i i think it becomes more clear i don't know that you're So we try to also tie the brand of you to your core values, right?
23:34
And like, what drives you as a human, not as a designer so much, because the core values will influence the work that you, that you do as a designer or as a creative of any kind. Yeah. So, and I don't know that you can change core values. Like you are born with a set of what's right or wrong for you. This is true. And what you hold, what you hold at the highest level of standard. But I think what can change is your ability to express that or communicate it and really pinpoint what that is. And I don't think that we spend enough time self-reflecting and analyzing and asking ourselves, you know, inner interviewing. Yeah. What am I all about? Why does this moment feel great and that moment, right, you know,
24:23
an hour ago didn't? purpose? How does it align with me? That's what we try to connect with. And I think that ties back to making everybody different. Would you say that, like when I hear the word brand, you think of like Nike or Apple, right? Yeah. Would you say that personal brand has more in common with a company's When we take on the topic of a brand in the book, I start with that premise. I mean, we're all consumers. We all understand branding from a consumer standpoint. We purchase brands that we believe in, trust. We associate not just with the product and the service that it delivers, but we continue to support those brands because of alignment of the mission.
25:25
Um, maybe it's the quality, maybe it's the, with the way they do business, maybe it's how they support community. Um, and that's what strikes. It's not just the product or the service, right? Like there's more beyond it. Yeah. Um, and that's the promise. Like they're actually delivering on the promise and you can see it and you're supporting it. Um, so I'm not sure if there is a more or less equation here. And the lesson being, how do you and your ability to show up, how can you use the lessons of delivering on a promise and do it as a person, as a human being? Oh, that's very well said. Yeah, I absolutely, I mean, that's a fun exercise even to think about in my own life and the
26:16
brands I surround myself with and then trying to think of why, you know, like what is it and how that might even apply to how. I carry myself. Okay, this is good. You know, I, obviously with personal brand, brand should in a way differentiate you, right? Design is tough. It's tough to stand out because there's a lot of people with a similar skill set, right? Like how do you navigate differentiating yourself? Hey, the way to differentiate is through clarity, first of all, clear messaging. Okay.
27:02
So when you put five designers in a room and they're all equally qualified, they have the same education, they have similar portfolios, their designer capability, and maybe same or similar credentials. Those that stand out are those that are able to articulate their story in a way that connects with them. It's not so much about, here, look at all the things that I've accomplished, because that's what they all have in common. But how they present the fact that they have gone through a specific education program and have developed understanding of, you know. this skill and that skill and developed certain level of strength and that's what makes them
27:58
different and then they decided to pursue a credential because that would allow them to practice more freely or allow them to explore opportunities in a specific sector yeah i think it's those extra you know it's the embellishing i guess it's the how can you connect your personal The basic, the minimum, be it education or credential or your resume, right? Yeah. It's almost less about the brand itself and more about the clarity of the brand, knowing that everyone will have one, but how easy is it for you to communicate it? Right. How straightforward can you be? This is interesting.
28:45
I kind of want to take a next step because you can have a brand. you can understand it. You can understand your strengths. You can understand your values. How do you take the next step in shaping a career around that? Because in many ways, I think a lot of people are in a career. They may have a sense of those things. Like here's what I'm passionate about. Here's what I'm good at. But they feel, I don't want to say, they feel like maybe they don't have the control over their career and rather they're They're always trying to fit inside something. Oh, I think there's a lot there. I think part of being able to shape your career is, again, having clarity on where you're headed. We also have to understand that we don't operate in a vacuum.
29:49
can be gold in making a career shift, in pivoting, in workshopping a solution, maybe deciding on, you know, whether to advance within a firm or move on. maybe work through, you know, this is not even about the creative work, right? It's about sort of growth as a creative profession and your career journey. Having those trusted conversations can open up a lot of possibilities and options that you might have not thought about. And I think being able to connect then who you are, what you bring to the table with the possibilities that you did not.
30:38
think about. But being very intentional about those choices is, I think, what allows people to elevate their careers so that you don't feel like you're moving within somebody else's chess game. I mean, you've been practicing for five years and your manager thinks that you now should be leading a studio. But is that what you want to do? Or is that just the next move within the environment? Have you thought about what that may look like? And is it really in alignment with your core values? I don't know that many people think through those filters. bring that forward.
31:33
But the sooner you get in the process of evaluating things, I think the happier and more aligned you may feel as a creative. Yeah. There's so many personas in this book. I mean, you as a reader will find yourself, at some point you will find yourself in that book, like with a light bulb, that's me. That was the point. I mean, my co-author, Jenny, used to write a lot of profiles and stories for various design magazines. And it's just so inspiring to know there are so many possibilities in this industry. And people decide to pivot and move and retract, go back, backward, forward. Sometimes growth is not.
32:23
moving up sometimes growth may be pulling back yeah but it feels good when you know why you're doing it yeah um a lot of it has to do with clarity and a lot of it has to do with getting the noise out of your head disconnecting from what doesn't matter or shouldn't matter yeah and really connecting with our passion our purpose um and why you decided to be a designer in the first place i love this uh this separating maybe what the world thinks growth is and understanding what growth really means to you at a personal level like that that's fundamental like i think maybe some of it is even generational but so many people i think are raised to believe growth is one thing it's more yeah but
33:20
But more could just mean I want more time in this moment of my career journey. Yeah. So having more time for a personal development, for example, or to care for a family member also means that you have less time for other things. Yeah. And oftentimes we don't consider that balance and we say, well, I need more time here and I need more time here and I need more time here and now I have given up sleep. And soon enough, you're burnt out and you're unwell. Yeah, yeah. That's also something we talk about in the book, that it's really not about killing yourself over this career. This career can be flexible. You just have to know what you want to get out of it.
34:10
Yeah. You know, we talked a little bit about change in the beginning. I kind of want to connect that to resilience. I know resilience is a big part of your story. Are there some specific ways that people can build resilience or maybe people can see things differently to understand maybe what they're getting out of change? For one, taking a moment to pause in a moment of change. is really valuable it's it's gold separating the emotion out of the situation is another it's not easy i know that when change happens and you didn't ask for it um it sucks yeah
35:05
and i mean it sucked for me when i lost my job uh it sucked for jenny it sucked for so many people whose stories we tell in the book whether that was professional change personal change things don't envision and it just is part of life like a friend of mine says life will life life will life i like that so what are you going to do about it yeah there are some things that happen that you just don't have control over and so i i think there's more there's always time for feeling bad for ourselves feeling the feelings right taking it personally uh, blaming yourself, blaming the world, but also realizing that, well, maybe like what good can happen, right?
35:52
What good can come out of this? What if it was all for the better? Can it be for the better? What is the one thing that you could do right now that you couldn't do in the moment before? Um, and the other piece I think is again, leaning on your support. network people generally in this field i found and we found that people have generally been um in your shoes they've either been in this situation before or they have been in a situation where somebody else helped them it is such a people-oriented industry that Yeah, I agree.
36:43
If you reach out, right? And if you're honest about what you're looking for. Hey, I'm, you know, this is my situation. This is how I found your name. Do you mind? I'm looking for feedback. I'm, you know, would you mind spending 30 minutes with me? Would you mind introducing me to someone? Here's a challenge I'm having. I'm asking for some, you know, confidentiality. I just think that we need to be able to articulate our struggles more and trust that we're all in this together. This industry is wide and broad and built on people, by people, for people. Yeah, I agree. Like you don't have to feel alone in that pursuit, you know, in this career.
37:37
Um, I agree. There's a lot of people that want to help and they get probably just as much out of it for themselves. I think that's the power, isn't it? When, when you're struggling, I think it is healing to help to be on the giving end. It is. The people that are, that report being the happiest in the world are those that don't have a lot themselves, but they continue to give and somehow they're giving from almost nothing. Yeah. The piece that I will add to. to this is i think sometimes you may feel like you have nothing to give maybe you're just starting out or maybe you're pivoting into this career or pivoting away from this career and it may feel like i don't you know i'm the one looking for feedback you just don't know like the one thing that you will say in a conversation will make somebody's day yes 100 so i think if you're able
38:32
Like what we talked about earlier, like I'm here today. This is what I'm doing today. Yeah. You may just save a moment for someone else. I agree. And that, again, that's gold. I think that's so powerful. I actually, this was a long time ago, I had a conversation with a muralist and a snowboarder. It was Pat Milbury was his name. Brilliant guy, just wonderful energy, so kind. uh and he you know he was on this mission to spread joy still is he's like that's what my murals are for and uh you know he he's so complimentary of everybody like he would you know he'd see somebody like hey cool hat or like i like your style you know he was just he was always complimenting and i kind of asked him like why don't why don't more people do that
39:23
and i think it's fear i think people are afraid sometimes to pass along a compliment or to say something nice in a moment and i'm not sure where the fear is rooted in i haven't gone that deep but i i too feel like everybody is not only capable but doesn't matter if the ceo says it or a junior says it like when you hear a compliment it always it's just as validating no matter who it comes from And it may be more validating when it's somebody closer that you associate yourself with closer, which is why I think I, I'm saying like it, even when you feel like you have nothing to give, that smallest thing may be super valuable to the other person. I agree.
40:15
I agree. So you wrote, you wrote the book. It's not a small feat when you go through this, right? There's... There's a lot in there. If someone else wanted to write a book right now, would you tell them, run, don't do it? Or would you say, yes, get started? What's been your experience like personally? I mean, do it. I'll help you. Now that I've done it twice with the original edition and the revised edition, two different processes. Do it. I mean, share your opinion, share your truth with the world. I think somebody will find it valuable and somebody will get an important message out of it. Awesome.
41:08
So I would totally encourage anyone. So what's the, is there a story like in the, like that would, so you're laughing, so there must be one. Is there a story through writing this book that comes to mind that's like, oh yeah, that's a good one. Well, first of all, the book came out of a road trip. So Jenny and I were doing a talk at the University of Wisconsin-Stevens Point, long drive from Milwaukee. And, I mean, it tells you how committed we are to the topic. We would just get in the car or get on the plane when invited. to talk to a group of people about the necessity or the value of having a personal brand, a value of networking, alignment with your core values, all those topics.
41:59
But we also realized that we, we love doing this, but there's a limit to how many people we can help. There's only a limit to the people that are in the room. Yeah. And so. though none of us or neither of us have uh ever dreamed of writing a book or that was a goal of of ours we thought you know that's what we should do and you know that was definitely a a dual commitment right there yeah so i don't know how many people you know go on a road trip and get out of um a book commitment out of that experience but that's what happened to us um I mean, we often, you know, stories, we oftentimes, it's been 10 years for the title that it's been out from the first publishing. So quite a long time.
42:51
Yeah. We've gone through each, each of us have gone through various pivots in our careers, slowdowns, you know, faster moments. But every time we feel a little lost or every time we feel a little frustrated, we generally will go back to. Hey, you need some career advice? Maybe you should read your book. I have a great resource for you. It's called The Brand of You, and you co-authored it. That's funny. Because we are human, and we forget our own advice. And when you're in the world of the struggle, somebody, you know, is hopefully there to pull you out or to slam on the brakes and say, But wait, have you looked at it from this perspective?
43:43
And that's what we hope to give the readers through the book, a piece of strategy, a piece of clarity, and a piece of guidance that they can use throughout their careers. That's awesome. I think you've done that today and in text. So really, I mean, fantastic job. Is there anything maybe that you hoped I would ask that I haven't? Oh. Or maybe a story you wanted to tell? Another story? We, I mean, so I do want to say that this version, the new version of the book, we worked really hard to understand what the state of the industry today. We started to revise the text during the pandemic. sort of right in the midst of the pandemic because we realized that there are parts of
44:36
the book that age themselves just from a technology standpoint. But also we were starting to see that the industry was changing and it was important for us to capture that change. And then we paused because the changes were so rapid and it wasn't very clear where we were headed. So when you talk about resilience and commitment to the, to the challenge or the project, we have taken the first, first we took, we took two and a half years to write the book. Yeah. In the very first attempt. And then we toyed around with revisions for another three years, fully committing to rewrite and updates this year from January to September. Wow.
45:26
But what's in this version, which we're really proud of, is more focus on balancing what's important to you with your career. Very important consideration about core values and what drives you as a designer. And we also really try to sort of... provide a moment to breathe yeah and give people permission to breathe and give designers a sense of it doesn't all have to be speeding through that it's okay to slow down and look other people did it yeah and it's possible awesome well thank you for sharing all of this here today i really appreciate it and congratulations
46:23
Thank you. And now you have to sign my book. I'd love to sign. I mean, again. And you too, Jenny. We're so proud and so thankful to be here and just hoping that more people will be guided and find some clarity in the book. Awesome. Thanks for joining me here on Love What You Do.